The beginning of a journey...
Originally I started posting this as a comment on my previous post. But then, I ended up writing more than what I initially intended to. I wanted this to be a continuation of the last discussion.
Let me start by saying - "there is nothing to conclude". In fact, those who believe after all these discussions that some changes can be made should take it upon themselves and push to implement what they think will work. If you are still confused on what needs to be done, get it clarified with someone you trust and try to support him/her in working towards that change.
Honest to everyone, there are some of my friends who read this blog (most of them are silent observers) and have conveyed their support and we have started thinking on ways to do things now. By contributing to this discussion, you have already started doing your part, by making people think that several solutions are available. Keep continuing to do that by bringing in your own group of friends and making them think and work together.
If you think doing something for your school is good, start gathering your school mates, create an informal association (cos more formal it becomes more problems arise) and start working on things that you think will improve the situations that you felt weren't good when you studied. If you don't think that works, then fine, do something that you think will work rather than giving up after about 150 comments on this blog - that was not the intent. If you think Onyx is the solution to cleanliness in your neighborhood, take it upon yourself and make it happen - now. Gather the strength of those in your community and work towards it as doing things alone is not easy. There are several who want to do something but have very little guidance. Those who respond and read this blog are several steps ahead of those who are clueless. Help them achieve their goals by guiding them.
If you believe that this post is more than just another post, take it yourself or help me take it to the next level. If you don't want to publicly support, then those who know me, email me in person of your intent and thoughts and those who don't know me email me through my profile.
We conclude only when we achieve our results. We have just begun. Like the name of this blog, there are several milestones to cross and we have crossed the first few. No one knows where the road takes us further, but everyone knows where we want to go. There will be road closures and detours, there will be wrong turns and U-turns, there will be blow-outs and empty gas tanks, but just like we do whatever it takes to get to our favorite weekend destination, we should work harder when in crisis to get to our destination. For that to happen, those who work together must have the same destination though they may have several routes. But, if many head the same route, then it is easier to handle problems on the way as compared to taking different routes. Let us drive forward rather than spinning the wheels in the same place.
32 comments:
Driver,
I'm the first to comment
If you are still confused on what needs to be done, get it clarified with someone you trust and try to support him/her in working towards that change.
I'm even more confused, and this blog brought out some light to the already confused mind, so may be not a direct intent, the blog still did help me and I'm sure peole like me as well.
I tried discussing with my friends as you suggested but they are not serious at all :( I understand how difficult it is to even gather support.
However, the only thing that I did is to go to the store, buy couple of pots and some tomato seeds ;) (something you were successful at, so why reinvent the wheel) in my apartment and the leaves have sprouted, and it was really amazing to see even this.
I've never tried my hands in doing this, and everyone in my house (back in India) and my friends circle (indians in India and USA) made fun of my actions and even told me that I've gone crazy. I did not even get a single word of encouragemet :( and many of the comments fell in the line - "Why do you want to put your hands in something that is not you?" :(
Very discouraging. :( The only thing that I think I can do is to make it successful and show them that this is possible. I pray God to help me.
When we attempt somethin that is out of ordinary, that's what happens I guess. Discouragement from close quarters, Fear of Failure. But, hey, if you look at it, actually there is nothing to lose and everything to gain :)
I also realized that it is difficult to gather support, and if this itself is so difficult, i could imagine cleaning up the street, or regulating the traffic.
I see a point in your replies to Venkat in your previous blog, and I realized it only after I tried something myself. I even tried cotacting Onyx (even though PasserBy had already did), but there was no good response from them.
But, well, I'm still confused. Apart from trying to grow the tomato plant, what can I do?!
Some ideas (or mis-ideas), I had earlier about schools are still there, and I'm still skeptical. What can I do?! What are you trying to do? How did you gather your friends? Sorry to ask you questions, but I'm trying to find out, how you are doing it.
I also request those "Silent observers" to come out and help people like me out. Please share your ideas, it will clear up the air definitely.
I still believe that "Critical Thinking" like that of Venky is useful and he should not stop writing. I think that it will help people like me see both sides of the coin and make a decision.
Thank you for the blog.
Kannagi
Kannagi:
What is the point in thanking someone for a post? Glad to know your tomato plant is sprouting. It will be a pleasure to watch it grow.
Likewise, I was hoping that this discussion will grow into something useful as well. Things will be discouraging at first, afterall Indians are known for our extreme conservatism. Never give up and keep trying.
I will share my efforts at school when it starts zooming towards a good result. In the mean time, if you could talk to your school friends about this and get a collective idea, you will be in a better position to start thinking on what you can do from the grassroots level.
Kannagi
Well done.
Driver
Great to see your silent observers doing something. Eager to know how it goes, and if I can do anyting on it.
Venkatagiri:
If you are following the blog, can you tell me if you have any alternatives other than ONYX?!
Rest of the fellows:
Where are you? Is the silence telling that you are "DOING SOMETHING WITHOUT TALKING", or is it telling another story?! Clarify my friends?!
Tagged you. More details at blacknike.blogspot.com
Badri
What does that mean?! Is that some kind of code word :-0
driver and friends:
What happened?! Hmm. Looks like either everyone has started doing something or everyone has decided this is probably where they will not get the name and fame & have gone for pastures like NDTV?!!!!
It is very unfortunate. There were so many series of emails from many quarters when it came to ASKING QUESTIONS. But now there is GRAVEYARD SILENCE?!
I'm sorry to say this, that's typical example of why we (Indians) are like this. We try SO HARD TO PREVENT SOMEONE FROM DOING SOME GOOD (the proof is in this blog and their replies), and when we see that we may not succeed, WE NOW FURTHER TAKE A SERIOUS STEP TO SPOIL THE PARTY BY NOT ENCOURAGING OR SUPPORTING OR JOINING HANDS in implementing things.
Well, please BREAK THE SILENCE.
On second thoughts, if you all are DOING SOMETHING, please let us know as well because such stories will provide encouragement to those who doubt. Kannagi is a proof and I appreciate her in coming out and openly admitting her doubts.
passerby:
Same here. I sincerely hope that those who responded earlier have started something. I am trying to start something myself, but it has been slow (understandably) and I have very little support at this point. I am trying to get more support (which I am sure I will have) and will update when the first steps are covered.
Driver, Passerby,
My earlier comment was nothing related to the blog. Just had a post up in my blogspot and tagged Driver. Thats it.
I am not really doing much, with driver's blog as a source of inspiration. But there are a few things that are going on.
1. Eye donation campaign at office. Got about 30-40 pledges.
2. Am collecting money and books to contribute to a local school library.
Ya, the old, but true, arguement about "this doesn't amount to much" holds good. No excuses, but offlate I am made to understand the meaning of the phrase "I am very busy"
Badhri,
What you are doing is more than many of us have even done, So, kudos to you and your efforts. Keep going and others will follow.
I thought of peeking in here today.When I read the comments made after my last one, I realized that I left from this place abruptly without giving a proper conclusion from my side. I see a new post now.I feel that this post by Driver and comments made by passerby make obvious references to me (onyx and ASKING QUESTIONS). I also felt that I was not completely understood on the comments I had written earlier. So I want to make things unambiguous today. Sorry to make this one very long.
Let me make it loud and clear that I am LEAST INTERESTED in taking any INITIATIVES for developing the country about which you guys are so passionate about . I have declared it in one of my previous comments on what I think about India et all. I reiterated it in my last comment as well. To those who will ask the question - "Why the hell did you come to this blog in the first place ??", I am obliged to give the following answers. It is also a summary of what happened so far from my perspective.
I came to this blog to make an attempt to offer solutions for a "problem" , which I interpreted in a way based on your initial description and you also seemed to agree on that interpretation. I started on a sarcastic note but later I viewed the whole affair as a "problem and solution" without any passion for the place where this is going to be implemented. I supported a solution which I thought is a logical approach on a limited level. Taking cue from Driver's analogy, I just tried to act like a gas station owner to whom you asked for directions. Since I know him and since he was passionate about reaching his destination , I thought of offering a few gallons of free gas .I urged him to THINK & ANALYZE (and definitely not jump into it on the word go) about a particular direction (which someone else had shown), that in my opinion appeared realistic .Unfortunately it appeared as if I am pushing it too much whereas in reality I just wanted to initiate a feasibility study on that and leave it to the passionate guys to extend it to implementation if everyone concur . When driver evaded answer to the question - "What is the criteria that when met, will make you declare that your objectives are acheived? ", my suspiscion that he dosen't even know where he wants to go became stronger . Now after reading this latest blog , I think that he is urging me to travel through the road which I asked him to take. I want to remind him that I never intended to go to the destination he wanted to go . I offered only support and it is his choice to take it or not. Neither I cried "I love India" & "Jai hind" nor I took a pledge like him.
I thought people who are so passionate about bringing a so called change will also be equally passionate to find smartest,quickest and realistic solutions grabbing all the support that comes on the way. I thought they would strive to create a system in which any small kind of contributions (be it monetary, managerial,coordination or hands-on-work) will get converted to meaningful efforts on the ground instead of demading that contributions be made only in a certain manner . I even thought that the creation of such a system will be a result of matching the objectives with resource availability rather than leaving the objectives unclear and looking for resources in advance. What I observe now is that people are despising the concept of sending foreign exchange itself and there is a tacit approval to the concept of drawing people to do the work hands-on. In my opinion, by saying this they have already lost a potential amount of support. My point is to look at the things in terms of solving a problem and do not be carried away by thoughts like whether we are buying it or making it. All I can understand now is that driver has made up his mind to implement the moral education program .He failed to declare this unequivocally when I asked him first. At that point he simply told that he is "considering" all options. I somehow thought that his consideration would mean a relook at the strategy per se.
Driver:
You seem to have warded off the alternative approaches to others rather than concentrate all efforts to some achievable solution . You simply drew people together only to let them go on their own path after giving some piece of advice. On one hand you want a collective approach (For that to happen, those who work together must have the same destination though they may have several routes. But, if many head the same route, then it is easier to handle problems on the way as compared to taking different routes )and on the other hand you want people who come here to take their own initiatives( In fact, those who believe after all these discussions that some changes can be made should take it upon themselves and push to implement what they think will work ) .
Though you neither answered the questions nor did any visible introspection, I could see that you already got support for whatever you planned from passerby and kannagi. You could have availed the services of kannagi productively rather than letting her plant a tomato at her home in california. Passerby could have been given some task to do in your program rather made to wait for what others are going to say here in your comments section. I don't know with whom you are in touch with these days for grabbing support , when people are already waiting to support you in this blog itself.
Conclusion: I realize that I may be wrong in trying to pressing you to answer the questions I asked. I was simply carried away by my desire to see how logical and well-informed your approach was . I fully realise that it is not my business and I must have stopped after suggesting one and offering whatever help I intended to give you as I don't share the passions with you.
venkat:
Let me clarify your question on the point where you say that I am contradicting myself by saying support me or push your own ideas. This is for those who are passionate about doing something. If one thinks my ideas on this blog will work and are interested in supporting, I welcome them to not just stop with writing about it. If someone feels that implementing Onyx is the way, then they should passionatley pursue that with a group of like-minded individuals rather than just suggesting it. They should take control and lead by example.
Again, maybe you didn't read all the responses. I and passerby contacted Onyx and after several attempts came to know that they operate under the Chennai Corporation and are not allowed to work for Municipality or Panchayat areas (which is what my locality falls under). So, it is not like I have totally disregarded your suggestion.
True that I could have used the support of Kannagi and Passerby rather than just expecting comments and expecting them to grow tomatoes. To keep you informed, I am in touch with both of them and am trying to utilize their support in a way I think still has a chance of working in my locality - at least to start with.
I have also requested the services of like-minded people in supporting me to do something worthwhile. Like you said, without knowing what to acheive, without planning what to do, we cannot acheive a goal. Rather than just saying do this and do that, I am trying to do it myself first and then will continue to preach it (if you think I am just all words and no action, like most of us.)
In fact, I am least bothered if I get any responses on this blog. It does nothing but bring people together. This is a tool to share my thoughts and learn what others think. This is an educational medium by itself (if you want to use it that way, of course).
You keep insisting that I am avoidng your questions, but unfortunately, this is neither an examination nor am I required to answer to subjective questions.
Unrelated information:
I am reading a book (Games Indians Play: Why We Are the Way We Are) now, a good friend suggested me to read it when she read "DemocraZy". I have just completed two chapters but already I am beginning to understand why she wanted me to read it.
I have also requested the services of like-minded people in supporting me to do something worthwhile.
I simply asked you what is that you are considering "worthwhile"? . Just taking it one step forward, I also just tried to tell you that instead of sticking to something which you are considering worthwhile , why don't you discuss and analyze it with people coming here. May be You will come to know there are better "worthwhiles" and they may be easy to implement and more effective with whatever time,manpower and resources you are able to gather.
Also be cautious about your experiment. Your tomato might have nicely grown in the warm/watered environment you created at home. But if you later discover that you have to replicate this in Sahara desert in real life, the results of your experiment may not of any use. If you analyze and discover today that it is Sahara desert where your tomato plant has to grow, you could have probably experimented drip irrigation in the first place.
I am trying to do it myself first and then will continue to preach it
What is that you are trying to do it yourself first? Oops..sorry for the question again. whatever you do..Just make sure you are trying the correct experiment.
Just FYI - I have done drip irrigation for my tomatoes... I will respond to the rest later.
Venkat:
You constantly amaze me. You say that you are not INTERESTED in the destination!!! (I wonder why they you are in a bus which wont go to your destination).
Well, could it be that you are also wanting to go but just not admitting????????? I BET THAT IT WHAT IT IS.
You are just afraid to admit that there is a MADAGASCAR somewhere. You are just not ready like ANTZ who believed that a BETTER PLACE DID EXIST - INSECTOPIA. You see that in the depth of your heart, but you don't admit.
You just let go your frustration that you were not able to ADMIT first and then of course reach the destination, by BOMBARDING me, driver and who ever says INSECTOPIA does exist.
For whatever reasons, you keep asking questions, and you forget the fact that YOU DONT DESERVE TO ASK QUESTIONS IF YOU DONT DARE TO DO IT YOURSELVES.
WHY THIS BLOG:
This blog is a media. I use it to "EDUCATE", "EXPOSE" and "ENCOURAGE". Who am I to do that will be the first question, but my answer is I'm SOMEBODY!!!!
EDUCATE:
Educate those who come here to think beyond what they are doing to themselves. To think for the society and to think for the country. To make people REALISE that we still HAVE NOT GOT THE FREEDOM that Mahatma wanted us to have.
To create a BASELINE, a PLATFORM where people can start TALKING THE SAME LANGUAGE *unlike what's happening now*
EXPOSE:
Expose many things - good and bad. Bad things need not be PINPOINTED but definitely good things deserve a place here.
* Badri's attempts. Even though he feels it is nothing he is doing something silently.
* Driver's attempts. He not only tries to do things, but also tries to encourage (the 3rd part) to do things. To think OUT OF THE ROUTINE BOX.
* Kannagi's simpleness and courage. The ability to ADMIT a few mistakes, and the interest to CORRECT it in simple words.
ENCOURAGE:
Encourage those silent and doubtful (Like yourself) to come out and try out a few things.
I guess there is nothing more that the blog can do. We are almost faceless, except a few of you who know each other.
You can always TAKE THE PHONE AND TALK TO EACH OTHER, but why is that you want to spend time on the BLOG to sort out your differences?
It is such a simple thing to pick up the phone and discuss what it is - Driver and Venkat, can do that as they live in the same place and they know each other.
People like me who sit in India do not know what it is in the USA that makes it better, that we cannot do. After all they are also human beings with the same "STUFF" in their heads.
That's what we are wanting you guys to help us out with and those with good fortune to have seen it FIRST HAND, should only SHARE their experience, and like venkat keeps telling others but refuses to do himself, INTEROSPECT as a TYPICAL INDIAN and get an answer out of it.
When we are in a foreign country, we dont SPIT, but when we come HOME we start doing it as soon as we come out of the airport. We dont dare to bribe in america, but when we decide to bring in some FILTHY electronic goods (which usually dont work well in India), we bring in a few CHANGE to "SATISFY" the customs?!
Why do we do that? That's what my attempt is, to make those INDIANS who have taken a foreign land as refuge, for one reason or the other, and have the TIME AND MONEY (both luxury in today) not just waste their time on the BLOG but to start DOING something. And to me THE FIRST THING TO DO IS TO START THINKING.
I guess that is already started. I'm sure you will all have this at the back of your mind, and WHENEVER you come back to India, I am sure these should SURFACE and TAKE PRIORITY.
Talking about CHANGING THE COUNTRY is NOT A JOKE. It is NOT FOR THE LIGHT HEARTED.
So, come out of the CORPORATE TALKS and start thinking like a NORMAL MAN. Just CHANGE YOURSELVES and try to EDUCATE those who are not as fortunate as you were to experinece first hand what you are experiencing in america.
யாம் பெற்ற இன்பம் பெருக இவ்வையகம்.
Shouldnt that be our MOTIVE. Isnt that how we WERE, and what's so wrong in trying to go back to our roots?!
PLEASE DO THINK. ALL I AM ASKING YOU IS TO ASK THE QUESTION - "WHAT CAN I DO", and never ask the question "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?".
The first is SUPPORTIVE, the second (WHICH YOU ALWAYS ASK) is SO NEGATIVE. At least to those people who want to reach the "SAME DESTINATION"
On your question to driver
What is that you are trying to do
I will answer you. I think he is trying to get Indians TOGETHER. He is trying to MAKE THE INDIANS REALIZE that they can DO BETTER, without the so called "SACRIFICE".
I think he is just trying to tell us that WE SHOULD BE CONTRIBUTING TO THE COUNTRY AS WELL, and not just BLAMING the SYSTEM!! (Which in fact is ALL OF US).
He is trying to tell you that IF YOU TAKE THE STEP YOURSELVES THEN THE COUNTRY WILL CHANGE GREEN THAT VERY MOMENT.
HE IS TRYING TO LIGHT A SPARK.
Driver:
I've read that book too. So please avoid discussing a book here. We know what we are. WE DO NOT WANT SOMEONE TO JUST SAY WHY WE ARE LIKE THIS.
If we dont know about ourselves then who will?! So talking about why we are the way we are will NOT ENCOURAGE US, but rather NEGATIVELY ENCOURAGE US TO BE THE SAME AS WE ARE?!!
Badri:
There is NOTHING WRONG TO BE PROUD OF DOING EVEN A SMALL THING WHICH IS FOR A "GOOD CAUSE". The only thing that I'll take away from you is "SHOWING THAT YOU ARE HUMBLE".
Be PROUD. You are DOING A GREAT THING. Let's follow suite.
Great work on the books. Actually I'm wanting to know the kind of books you are giving of to the libarary. Hope they are a mixture of ACADEMICS, MORAL and HISTORY ABOUT INDIA books.
Many books are there, which talks about our GREATNESS. It is unfortunate that we dont read them and hence DONT BELIEVE IN THEM.
So it is a HUGE RESPONSIBILITY on our sholders to educate them. (FIRST WE NEED TO BE EDUCATED THOUGH). In your own words
"The more you learn, the more you realize about how less you know."
Well said on your blog, and when we realize this I'm sure we can DEFINITELY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
And Venkatagiri:
Let me make it loud and clear that I am LEAST INTERESTED in taking any INITIATIVES for developing the country about which you guys are so passionate about
You may not be passionate, but you are BOUND to WORK FOR THE BETTERMENT OF MOTHER LAND.
I came to this blog to make an attempt to offer solutions for a "problem"
WITHOUT INVOLVEMENT YOU CAN NEVER SOLVE A PROBLEM. You have all the qualities to become a "MANAGER" :p
Neither I cried "I love India" & "Jai hind" nor I took a pledge like him
Why? Are you ashamed to say it?! :p
I want to remind him that I never intended to go to the destination he wanted to go
Again, YOU HAVE NO CHOICE. Certain things cannot be WAIVED OFF!!! This is one such. If you do that to your mother land, that is like neglecting your mother.
Somethings you DONT HAVE A CHOICE. For some things it is YOUR DUTY to take the journey, whether you LIKE IT OR NOT.
You breath, live and enjoy and then make those "sarcastic" comments because MILLIONS OF INDIANS chose to GAURD you at the border. DONT MAKE FUN OF THEIR LIVES.
What we are DISCUSSING here is NOT something that you can PASS YOUR TIME ON.
I hope you will CORRECT YOUR ATTITUDE quickly and try to understand that YOU SURVIVE because millions of Indians are DOING THE JOURNEY for the sake of those SELFISH INDIANS who sit in the USA and claim that THEY DONT WANT TO TAKE A JOURNEY.
With such attitude, India has enemies only INSIDE it and not OUTSIDE.
Finally, YOU HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO TAKE THE JOURNEY TO THE DESTINATION. Like it or not. You are BORN INDIAN, and you have to TAKE CARE OF YOUR MOTHER.
You constantly amaze me. You say that you are not INTERESTED in the destination!!! (I wonder why they you are in a bus which wont go to your destination).Well, could it be that you are also wanting to go but just not admitting????????? I BET THAT IT WHAT IT IS.
Just a correction. I am not inside your bus but rather inside another bus and looking at your bus from outside.
For whatever reasons, you keep asking questions, and you forget the fact that YOU DONT DESERVE TO ASK QUESTIONS IF YOU DONT DARE TO DOIT YOURSELVES.
I was (and I am still) fully aware of the fact that I am exposing myself to the risk of being told this. Infact I was conscious about this when I came back to write a summary .That is why I even wrote my conclusion to even answer this part even before asked . You can go back to the conclusion I wrote and read it properly . Even now I am continuing to do give comments only to make people realize that I did not come here to discourage but rather to tell that I sound sensible. I might not be willing to do anything like you ,but definitely I will be consistent with what I say and will not create hypes. I don't have anything to gain by acting. As I had mentioned earlier, I wanted to prove that logic works better. The first step towards proving anything to be logical is asking and answering questions. If questions doesn't sound logical, you must try to explain why you think so. I always try to be guided by the objective rather than by an individual. If I am gathering people to support me or to listen to what I say, I would invite questions and be willing to answer any question that one wants to ask. I won't tell them "Why don't you understand me ?", rather I will ask them "Did I make myself understandable to you?" . I would absolutely give the freedom to ask and never be limited by what is the motive behind the question as long as the question sounds reasonable.
People who write blogs with passion should also remind themselves that tall claims with unconvincing measures , unclear objectives without any touch of reality will do more harm than good. Whereas, small, incremental , short term ,well planned ,realistic and concerted,clear approaches without tall claims will prove more useful on ground.
On your question to driver
What is that you are trying to do
I will answer you. I think he is trying to get Indians TOGETHER. He is trying to MAKE THE INDIANS REALIZE that they can DO BETTER, without the so called "SACRIFICE".
I don't understand why you used the word "think" (may be even typo) . The use of the word think is synonymous to "I am not sure". Even if you are sure about what you said, just ask yourself whether this is what he really meant right from the post on "Democrazy". Also read through all his responses to see whether he was consistent with his answers. Does it really require 3 longs posts and 100+ comments to just say this?? Did we not hear this all along from the time we joined our kindergarden at the age of three? Does it also make sense to thwart anything else that comes in between just to stick to what is said above? What was his motive behind talking about a moral education program? What was his reasons for "Considering all opitons"? What did he really "consider" at the end? . You can ask yourself whether you are guided by an individual or by an objective. You can ask yourself whether you are protecting an individual or an idea.
I think he is just trying to tell us that WE SHOULD BE CONTRIBUTING TO THE COUNTRY AS WELL, and not just BLAMING the SYSTEM!! (Which in fact is ALL OF US
All the verbiage could have been avoided if things are put in terms of - What I aspire?, What I require? and What is your take?
Venkatagiri:
You have the habit of NOT READING EVERYTHING and jumping into conclusions. Well, that's you I guess.
Also read through all his responses to see whether he was consistent with his answers.
DID YOU READ YOUR RESPONSES? You have contradicted yourselves more than a million times I guess :p
On the usage I THINK:
First, I'm not an american (and neither you are but you think so), and find things that are USELESS ENGLISH!!! My mother tongue is NOT ENGLISH and so my wordings may not have been good. Such an ambiguous language and Mr. Bush had taught us twist it the way we want.
Secondly, even if I PONDER why I said that, well, I cannot talk for someone else. It is upto driver to SAY if my "THINKING" is right or wrong, and we can correct our ideas anyways.
I did not come here to discourage but rather to tell that I sound sensible
Of course ya. You never discouraged, and please read your comments one more time "OBJECTIVELY" as you claimed to see if you have been sensible. You asked us to try out ONYX, and we ACCEPTED it.
You complained that NO ONE TOOK ANY STEPS, and when I came back with the results, you say that I'M CRAZY TO TALK TO THEM?!!!! Is this sensible?
What I aspire?, What I require? and What is your take?
Are you from a B-School?! You always give DIRECTIONS to a "DESITNATION"(of course, you have accepted that you never walk the path yourself) and well, when people do take the path you say that YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RESULTS?!!
You are amazing me continuously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, now I will be STRAIGHT. THE CALL NOW FOR YOU IS TO NOT TELL THINGS THAT YOU WONT DO YOURSELF.
That way you can at the least save your face and not be ridiculed by others like me.
Secondly, even if I PONDER why I said that, well, I cannot talk for someone else. It is upto driver to SAY if my "THINKING" is right or wrong, and we can correct our ideas anyways.
Exactly!!! This is what I tried to say. Even after 3 posts and 100 comments , you are still not clear about what he said.
Of course ya. You never discouraged, and please read your comments one more time "OBJECTIVELY" as you claimed to see if you have been sensible. You asked us to try out ONYX, and we ACCEPTED it.
I concede that I sounded a bit arrogant in saying that. However, I request you to read the following which I wrote on my re-entry
I urged him to THINK & ANALYZE (and definitely not jump into it on the word go) about a particular direction (which someone else had shown), that in my opinion appeared realistic .Unfortunately it appeared as if I am pushing it too much whereas in reality I just wanted to initiate a feasibility study on that and leave it to the passionate guys to extend it to implementation if everyone concur .
I clearly told here that in the quest for getting the logic, I pushed something too much. However, what I tried to do through my push was something else. I just asked the question "DId I make myself understandabe?" to myself. The answer was NO. So I wrote these lines. It is unfortunate that I am still not understood.
Are you from a B-School?! You always give DIRECTIONS to a "DESITNATION"(of course, you have accepted that you never walk the path yourself) and well, when people do take the path you say that YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RESULTS?!!
I only asked what path Driver is taking. I stopped passing judgements on that path. I have even left the option to Driver to answer it or not. However I only emphasised the fact that I did not get an answer. It is still his prerogative to answer it or not. I am definitely not forcing anyone anymore.
Well, now I will be STRAIGHT. THE CALL NOW FOR YOU IS TO NOT TELL THINGS THAT YOU WONT DO YOURSELF.
That way you can at the least save your face and not be ridiculed by others like me.
I thought Driver was writing this blog. I don't know when the ownership changed hands. Driver has every right to tell this to me. He has every right to decide whether he wants me out of this place once for all. I won't be hurt even if he does that. I don't care if laughing stocks like you ridicule me. Before telling such things to me,I request you to check whether you are within your limits.
I came back to write a conclusion and wanted to get out from here after fully emphasizing the role I played so far ; gracefully. I realize that it is never going to happen.So I know it is time to leave. Carry on with you r "jai hind", "we can do it", "nothing is impossible" etc etc.
venkat:
I have told you my path (education is way to go) - u have ridiculed it and u continue saying that I haven't told what I am going to do or trying to do. I don't understand what else you don't understand about my path to a better future. You (in fact it was c'est la vie) gave a probable solution and I told you that it doesn't work in our area. You have conveniently neglected that response. You yourself never gave a solution anyway - maybe that is because you are not passionate about it which you have clearly stated.
Now, let us recap:
1. You are not passionate, but still you would argue passionately about why wrong things in India should remain wrong.
2. You would support any alternative solution blindly without giving a thought to what I am trying to say and rejecting the idea completely.
3. You won't give a solution either.
4. You keep asking questions on why will or won't and how can or can't and expect me to answer you as if I am a soothsayer.
5. You make a mockery of a genuine post with sarcasm and criticize those who are genuine.
6. You randomly (without knowing who someone is) accuse them of being a sadist or a rapist or what not. If that person gets back at you, you get immediately offended and say you will never come back and run away.
Monkeys will fling their $h!t at you, but if you are the more saner person, you will just say it is just a monkey and wipe it out. You don't go after it and complain to the zoo that the monkey did it and I won't come back and sue you (unless of course you are Kramer from Seinfeld!)
First, understand what we are trying to achieve here and shun away from personal remarks. If you genuinely want to give worthwhile suggestions, you wouldn't be offended by a faceless person (like passerby isn't offended by yours). I like passerby's attitude of taking whatever crap you throw at passerby but still comes back with a positive frame of mind and even going to the extents of appreciating the need of the negativity in all your comments.
Pistu asked you a question and you have not answered him till date - did pistu or anyone else (until now) point back to what was asked and insist on your answering.
I am used to being criticized by my friends for years (of course on a funny note) that I was like the 16 vayathinile Kamal's character for being extremely insistent beyond reason ("santhaikku ponum, aathaa vaiyum, kaasu kudu"). If I had taken it seriously and given up on those who made fun of me, then I would not have such a genuine group of friends for this long.
All I am trying to say is, it is OK to unlearn certain things and not be so stiff and incorrigible. It is OK to once in a while realize that maybe what I said was wrong and maybe this will work better the other way. It is also OK to tell that what I (driver) am saying is wron gand won't work. But it is not OK to say it is wrong without even giving an alternative solution. If c'est la vie had told me I am not considering her idea, then it is fair. It is unfair to me when you barrage me with questions when I am trying to do something worthwhile (because I am passionate about my country, which is "strange" from your perspective).
If you can't give a solution, don't tell that my solution won't work. If you are not passionate about your country, then don't complain. But, if you complain, then don't stop with complaining.
Driver:
I am simply shocked.I never knew it hurt you so much. I thought of ending everything with the last one I wrote, but I am simply compelled to write this.
I read all my comments again. I see that I had told what you are trying to do will not work . However, I never you knew you were stuck there.I simply imagined that you will come up with good backing for your plan or atleast change the course of the discussion to include what I said.I simply thought that my comments would result in a brainstorming. Unfortunately it created a wild storm of rage.
It is still true that I am not passionate about what you guys are doing. I apologise for crossing the limits of an onlooker. Since you were answering to me even after my conclusion, I thought you are okay with my comments. However, I never intended to ridicule what you are doing nor dismiss them as unworkable because I simply don't know what exactly you are doing except for the thing that you grew a tomato plant. You did tell about moral education but your language did give an implication that you are using it only as a tool and not as a goal. So i thought of asking to you consider other tools.That is why I asked you what is your goal. Now I understand that moral education is your goal.
I genuinely thought you will either come up with more research or change ur priorities. Infact I was thinking that I am inducing a professional approach and I was doing that by raising valid doubts on your ideas. I accept that I was carried away sometimes, but my personal attacks on passerby was purely restricted to what she/he said the first time about rasing daughters and despising people who are sending money. I never did it again and again. Infact in my previous response, I was more controlled and avoided any name calling.You can still see that passerby still doesn't understand what you are trying to say .You need not have got so much offended at someone's comments. Either give right response or just remove the comment from your blog if you don't like it.THat way you send the correct message to the guy who posted the comment and avoid such bad scenes.
It is very sad to know I was responsible building a wrath in you whereas I intended to create of fire of professionalism.I only targeted your ideas and not you. However you took it too emotional. I promise I won't repeat this again.
Sorry for coming here. I hope your anger will come down.
An embarassing note - You simplply snubbed me before passerby. I thought you will give a protection. Now I am afraid to see his/her jubiliation.
Answering to pistu:
I intended to comment on this blog and support if things sound professional.NO initiatives again.
Venkat:
my comments were not to hurt you again. As I said, my intentions have always been for the betterment of our society.
I am questioning those who are willing to follow rules when they are outside the country but wouldn't do the same when in India. I am frustrated at those who give zero chance for improvement even without trying.
I am disappointed at those who are very well educated, much better than 90% of the population in the country but are impassionate about raising the standard of living of the other 90%.
I am sorry that I didn't stand by you in front of a faceless person. But I think I am the one that was left standing alone trying to do something while hoping the best of my buddies will be their in support. I am here trying to bring in people but I am ending up with sarcasms and criticisms.
But not that I am not giving up. Like you always like to point out that I was the one who pledged to do something and not you. I am going to stick by it.
I have tried to explain in my earlier responses, more politely that life is not a business. It cannot be handled like a chemistry laboratoary project. There is no "AIM, APPARATUS REQUIRED, THEORY AND RESULTS". You can approach a problem when the parameters are set, like a chemistry experiment. But the issues our society are facing are not chemistry experiments. We don't know if the litmus will turn red or blue. We won't know if we are dealing with acids or toxins. By asking someone to approach with rationality where the only component that is rational is the person trying to solve the problem, then I have no answer for you.
You are so upset that I have dropped the ball in front of passerby and others. I have been going through the same thing since the day I started writing about it. You are saying I can just delete some posts if I find them unacceptable - yet again you are presuming that I don't censor these responses.
If all you got out of these posts is that I have grown a tomato tree, then I have to say that I have totally failed myself and my intentions. If anyone felt betrayed, it has to be the Indian citizens who can't have the same comfort and conveniences as we NRIs enjoy. We are so selfish that we cannot even share our good life with our own people. We forget to think that these are the your parents, brothers, sisters, cousins, friends and coworkers. We are so narrow minded and driven by cash on hand that we feel that we can buy anything and everything in the world without breaking even a sweat. The country becomes the ultimate loser as this is the country that provided all the conveniences by providing education. It is equal to forgetting our own parents who paid all through our life for a better future for us. We let them live their last few years by themselves in our memory and enjoy the wonderful life they provided us. I can't live like that and I can't be impassionate about my country. My country is my extended family and I will continue my attempts.
Venkat:
First and foremost:
You simplply snubbed me before passerby. I thought you will give a protection. Now I am afraid to see his/her jubiliation.
I'm not a saddist and I'm not fighting a war with you. So there is NO JUBILIATION at all. In fact I'm feeling really sorry for you, as I was someone who was aggessive.
The reason is simple. Time and again you DONT WANT INDIA TO IMPROVE. Don't deny that you have not said this. YOU HAVE ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASSION.
You know what, MORAL EDUCATION was missing I guess when you studied. That's what driver tries to tell you. Moral education tells you that YOU CANNOT BE SELFISH.
Some of us have ACCEPTED that we cannot be selfish. Some of us DONT accept, and some of us are confused and some of us REFUSE. You fall in the LAST CATEGORY. Which is why there is so much of hatred.
I dont know you. You dont know me. Where is the question of getting on "TOP". What are we getting on "TOP" of?
Like I had written earlier (which I'm sure you have either NOT READ or CONVENIENTLY IGNORED as you ignored my INOX effort), the intention of the blog is to MAKE PEOPLE THINK THAT LIFE IS JUST NOT ABOUT SELF AND FOR THOSE WHO HAD THE GOOD FORTUNE TO READ IN A DECENT SCHOOL AND AN AMERICAN EDUCATION, the URGE to give back should be more.
You want to GIVE us money. Remember, people in India are NOT BEGGERS. How can you think that we can accept your $$ when we are actualy wanting HANDS? Telling us to USE THE DOLLAR TO BUY MANPOWER is ARROGANCE. I dont know, why this is NOT GETING INTO YOUR HEAD.
You may not like what people are doing here in the blog. That only means that you are NOT PARTY here (YOURSELF). I'm sure even though this is Driver's blog, I can tell you that YOU ARE VERY WELCOME HERE AND YOU BRING IN ENERGY (Just that it needs to TUNE into ours). You may term it as TAKING OWNERSHIP of the blog.
First of all, I'm not trying to take ownership and even if I do, what's wrong in it?
At variuos stages a GOOD TEAM rotates responsibilities? Have you seen birds fliying in the sky as a flock in inverted "V" shape? You know what every bird takes turn to LEAD and TOGETHER THEY WIN.
You may ridicule this again, but hey THINK MAN? If Birds can do it, why is that we are not able to do that? We are supposed to have the "SIXTH" sense and birds dont?!
When you say I DONT WANT TO DO, then i think it is safer for you to just NOT BE HERE. But you SAY ONE THING AND FEEL SOME OTHER THING.
People who take ONE DECISION OR OTHER are better than PEOPLE WHO ARE CONFUSED. The attempt here is to get the people who are confused (may be feel for whatever crazy reason to tell that you work for our country) to make them realize that it is good to take the side WITH THE TEAM. The basic qualification would be to support and YOU HAD VOLUNTEERED YOURS SOMETIME BACK FOR DRIVER'S EFFORTS.
So we DONT want you to be OUT! You are ALREADAY IN?! Just that dont look into it, like driver put it, like a Chemistry experiment.
Science, as we know has made us NOT TO THINK. It may PROVE cerain things, but you should understand that NOT EVERYTHING NEEDS PROOF. Like if you eat poison you will die. You dont ask for SCINTIFIC EVIDENCE for this. Your approach is "DRINK THE POISON AND I'LL BELIEVE THAT WHEN YOU DIE". And you call this SUPPORT and RATIONALISM.
You are neither supporting, nor rational, nor caring. That's what HURTS. I am sure that is what hurt Driver.
I intended to comment on this blog and support if things sound professional
Then you want the LEAD. Dont tell me you will give me FREE GAS but you wont join the party. We DONT WANT YOUR FREE GAS.
What we want is your COMPANY. Yes we are asking something that you are NOT READY TO GIVE. Doesnt matter. WE WILL WAIT. But please REASON OUT and come back.
If you want things to be PROFESSIONAL, then you wouldnt have written your "EMBARASSING" statement. That was SENTIMENTAL AND EMOTIONAL. NOT PROFESSIONAL.
my personal attacks on passerby was purely restricted to what she/he said the first time about rasing daughters and despising people who are sending money
This tells that you are INDIAN at heart. You were hurt because of my statement (And I readily apologized in that post itself), which you again "Conveninetly" ignored.
Well, you are an INDIAN. Even though you change your citizenship, you will still remain INDIAN and DIE INDIAN. The proof is in the pudding (above).
You cannot even digest the fact that you are living in a country that allows boys and girls to do NONSENSE in the name of DATING (which is fast catching up like a plague in India as well which is what worries me), but you like every other dad say, "MY DAUGHTER/SON is not like that".
If you want to live in USA you should become an american, which I bet you cannot. So when you are LIVING AS AN INDIAN HEART AND SOUL, there is NO CHOICE FOR YOU but to "RIDE THE BUS".
Like I said you may delay your TRIP, but you EVENTUALLY GOT TO TAKE IT, if you believe in "REPAYING DEBTS".
Think BIG. Think for the COUNTRY. Please think.
Venkat:
I've to talk about this for sure:
You could have availed the services of kannagi productively rather than letting her plant a tomato at her home in california
The reason why Driver grew tomatoes is that he REALIZED the DANGER we live in. It has happned in CUBA. They had MONEY to buy but coudlnt by anything to eat.
This situation is fast coming to our nation as well (and almost all nations which give up on agriculture). We have now the so called multi-nationals in India, who try to COMMODOTIZE everything.
They are ruining our economy in fact by saying that they are contributing to us. They are depriving us of our natural resources by exploiting everything that is possible. I dont wnat to get into details, but if you do your so called "RESEARCH" you will know about it.
Si se puede article is something I recommend you to read again with an open mind. It will tell you a danger that is awaiting everybody else. Cuba is a living example.
So Kannagi's attempt and Driver's blog which guided Kannagi (At least one soul) to attempt something and see for herself that what DRIVER says is TRUE is to be APPRECIATED.
Do APPRECIATE!!!!!!!! (If you are OBJECTIVE as you claimed YOU WILL). I'll wait to see that you do that, and I'll be definitely HAPPY and not JUBILIATE as you said. The second one is childish, and I'm too old to be a child. And of course not a saddist :-)
Wake up wake up! :)
ponnarasi:
I am wide awake now more than ever and raring to take things forward in real world. Blog world needs to wait - life has more important things.
There is someone who observes silently (ponnarasi) finally coming out of the silence.
Even though you had written what you have (most probably) in a joking manner there is a lot of truth in it. 100 years back one Swami Vivekananda, said the same thing about Indian Youth (definitely not a joke).
100 years after we still are sleeping in a way as a country and if we dont do anything we will remain sleeping and most probably forget that we can wake up at all (EVOLUTION!!!!!)
TAMAS as it is called has conqured most of us today. Giving lame excuses to not put an effort and trying to use a foreign language proficiency to spice it uo and "sell" as smartness is what we do successfully.
Well, I'm glad that Driver saw it as an arrow shot against him and promptly rejected it saying he is not one such sleeper, which is why he does what he does I guess.
Even though I do not know what each one of us are doing I am hopeful that the INITIATIVES have not taken a back seat with the once again LAME excuse of "Life has more important things."
To me nothing is more important than the act itself.
@ Driver & Passerby
I wonder how or why you take everything in the wrong sense! It was just a friendly note. And i don't find any reason for a very serious reply as u have done! Whatever, b wide awake or asleep, am really not bothered!
Bye!
Ponnarasi:
It was taken only on the right snse. Nothing wrong at all. You have expressed nicely that you needed to know what's going on.
But, saying that you don't care in the latest reply has a touch of arrogance isn't it?!
ponnarasi:
What is wrong in saying that I have more important work to do in real life. How does that offend you? I simply don't understand. I am sure you have said the same when you were away for a long time. Either way, I think I have said nothing wrong.
பஉபொகூகொ என்பது ஒரு செயலின் சுருக்கமே அதன் விரிவாகமானது
"பதவி உயர்வுக்கு பொன்டாட்டியை கூட்டிக்கொடுத்தல்" என்பதாகும் இது ஒரு (எல்லோரும் அறிந்த) இனத்தில் இன்றளவும் கடிப்பிடிக்கப்படுகிறது. மேலதிகாரியை வீட்டுக்கோ அல்லது ஓட்டலுக்கோ விருந்துக்கு அழைத்து பொன்டாட்டியை சினிமாக்காரி ரேஞ்சுக்கு மேக்கப் செய்து அழைத்துப்போவான் புருஷன். அதுவே அந்த மேலதிகாரிக்கு சிக்னல் ஆகும். அதாவது நாங்கள் ரெடி, நீங்கள் ரெடியா என்று. பிறகு நல்ல ஒரு நாளில், கூட்டிக்கொடுத்தல் நடைபெறும், நடந்த பிறகு பொன்டாட்டி வீட்டுக்குள் நுழையும் முன் தலை முழுகிவிட்டு வருவாள், இதன் பெயர் தீக்குளித்தல் ஆகும். அந்தகாலத்திலிருந்து இந்த காலம் வரை, இதன்மூலமே அதிகம்பேர் பதவி உயர்வு பெற்றனர், பெற்றுக்கொன்டு இருக்கின்றனர். அவாள் அப்படித்தான்.
கன்னன்:
எனக்கு சுத்தமாக விளங்கவில்லை.
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